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Post by liquidsword34 on Aug 22, 2012 22:02:42 GMT -5
So issue #1 is up. If the name didn't give it away, the first issue should sort of show where I'm going. To me, The Punisher in the modern day just isn't viable when you consider the other heroes and villains around, and to be honest most Punisher stuff not written by Garth Ennis hasn't been enjoyable to me. However I've got a soft spot for Punisher Noir, and I'll take any excuse to write a load of card carrying villain mobsters, hitmen, pimps, war criminals, drug lords and whatever else you can find in post WWII New York.
It will end up being quite an overly violent and dark series, simply because I can't bring myself to write a Punisher series otherwise. I've never found The Punisher to be agreeable, methods and morals wise if you will, so to counteract that all the villains will be downright despicable people with no redeeming features.
Sooo....yep, any comments are welcome.
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Post by All Star Silentking on Aug 22, 2012 22:20:03 GMT -5
It is a very well written and captures the Punisher beautifully. The only problem is how it will be difficult to put it in continuity with other titles. ...maybe I should claim Daredevil and set it in the 40s. Yeah, this could be this site's Ultimate DC 2115. It is so well written that I don't want to you scrap it just because it makes it difficult to reach this site's goal of making our own Marvel universe.. Plus it would be rude. Also, continuity could be established with the present day thanks to Kang...
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Post by mezzaro123 on Aug 22, 2012 23:29:43 GMT -5
I love it and the dark tone coming from it. I look forward to Frank fucking up Ma, and to see how it plays out with SK's Daredevil.
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Post by beyonder on Aug 24, 2012 0:09:10 GMT -5
A good start with plenty of setup for future bloodshed. I like it, and I agree with the decision to not put the Punisher in a more modern setting where his mere presence makes the other heroes look bad.
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Post by liquidsword34 on Aug 26, 2012 23:12:04 GMT -5
Issue 2 is up. More bloody violence, heavy rain, trench coats and PTSD from what really does look to be the most upbeat title on the site!
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Post by mezzaro123 on Aug 26, 2012 23:16:16 GMT -5
Ha, sounds fantastic. I'll read it tomorrow evening/night, but I'm definitely looking forward to it.
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Post by All Star Silentking on Aug 26, 2012 23:41:52 GMT -5
Aw yeah, this is what I am talking about. How long will Barracuda last against Frank?
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Post by beyonder on Aug 27, 2012 20:15:50 GMT -5
Frank dealing with psychological issues not just related to the death of his family but in regards to the war itself is perfect. Very nice Ennis inspired touch there.
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Post by mezzaro123 on Aug 28, 2012 17:33:46 GMT -5
I'm loving your series so far but I'll save specifics till the arc is finished. But the PTSD adds a nice extra bit of character to him.
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Post by liquidsword34 on Aug 29, 2012 21:05:49 GMT -5
I've gone back and changed the name of Frank's WWII squad from The Squad to The Cursed. Neither name's winning any awards but the latter is quite a bit better in my opinion.
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Post by All Star Silentking on Aug 29, 2012 21:15:32 GMT -5
I will allow that and sounds better.
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Post by mrp on Sept 1, 2012 0:22:35 GMT -5
So just read Punisher #1. I think the 40's setting works better for this type of story. I am not a huge fan of stories with the Punisher as the lead, always preferred him as the foil against heroes like Spidey or DD, but if he is going to be the lead, this era works better. As for continuity concerns, so what, it's a bit of world building as the past of our MU gets a little definition.
Issue was well-written, but there was an occasional type here and there that stood out. I really liked some of the similes you used, the comparisons were very evocative and set the tone for the series.
A few quibbles though-baseball outside in NYC in the middle of January? Not bloody likely unless NYC in the MU is in the southern hemisphere.
Second-Yorkie at 21 being considered young in a WWII unit, not likely, he would have been above average in most troops. The bulk of US volunteers and draftees were 18-20 and many 16 and 17 years olds found a way to con their way in as well. Granted he was from the UK, but they had been in the war two years longer than the US and were even more likely to turn a blind eye to young'uns conning their way in. Just seemed out of place in a WWII era setting.
-M
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Post by liquidsword34 on Sept 1, 2012 5:36:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. Second-Yorkie at 21 being considered young in a WWII unit, not likely, he would have been above average in most troops. The bulk of US volunteers and draftees were 18-20 and many 16 and 17 years olds found a way to con their way in as well. Granted he was from the UK, but they had been in the war two years longer than the US and were even more likely to turn a blind eye to young'uns conning their way in. Just seemed out of place in a WWII era setting. I was trying to say he was young compared to the others in the group, and that he was twenty-one at the time the flashback took place (A few years into the war) and not when he joined. You're right though.
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Post by All Star Silentking on Sept 2, 2012 10:38:34 GMT -5
Strange that there is no announcement that part 3 is up. Anyway, it was a great read. Loved the fight scene between Frank and Barracuda. Also, Barracuda's conversation with Ma Gnucci's number 1 son. There were a literally a couple of mistakes I had found. But none too severe. You just slept Barracuda wrong at one point and put "Franks head" when it should be "Frank's head". Still was an awesome chapter and probably your best yet.
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Post by mrp on Sept 2, 2012 17:34:48 GMT -5
Just read #2, solid issue, interested to see where the bits with the flashbacks/hallucinations go. Interesting take on the character so far. -M
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Post by randomfan on Sept 10, 2012 19:36:03 GMT -5
Really liking it so far, especially the parts with him flashing back to the war, I'm interested to see what'll happen with that and whether or not the characters will appear for real.
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Post by liquidsword34 on Sept 13, 2012 7:31:57 GMT -5
Issue #4 is up
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Post by All Star Silentking on Sept 13, 2012 11:12:40 GMT -5
Wow, you do a great job at characterizing Barracuda. Now I hope Frank doesn't kill him and 'Cuda comes back as a recurring villain. But it is a Punisher story. What villain, except for Jigsaw (And even then, some versions kill him off), last long against Frank? Well, villains that were originally for the Punisher and not someone else's villain that is.
Anyway, the entire issue was great and the final scene was shocking and powerful. RIP my friend. RIP. Also, you can now do a spin-off! Also, you now only need two more issues before reaching continuity! Don't you feel grand?
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Post by heroic on Sept 15, 2012 18:26:39 GMT -5
Up to issue two so far and I'm enjoying what I'm reading. It really does feel like a proper Marvel Noir title and your standard of writing in general is very good.
Interested to see where you're going with Frank's whole flashbacks and hallucinations. Also beyonder's comment about Ennis hit the nail on the head for the writer I was thinking of when I was reading this.
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Post by mrp on Sept 16, 2012 16:18:51 GMT -5
Still an issue behind, but I just read #3. I like what you are doing, but there are some problems stemming from it being a period piece.
The challenge of writing a period piece is doing the research so that your story is true to the period you are setting it in. In a story that relies heavily on arms and armaments like the Punisher is, it is imperative you get those right. You didn't.
It's 1946 or thereabouts in your story.
First, Carlo Gnucci reaches for his glock. Unless you have a time traveler unknown to the reader bringing in weapons for the future, he wouldn't have a glock. Glocks didn't hit the market until 1979-1980.
Second, Barracuda's body armor was an important part of the fight with the Punisher, except in 1946 it wouldn't have played out like that, and the actual authentic tech would have changed your plot. In 1946 there were two types of body armor-light weight like an airman's flak jacket which sometime stopped flack and shrapnel, but did squat against bullets at long or medium range, let alone at close range like Frank was. It might slow one bullet, but would't stop it, and against multiple rounds, it would have been useless. The second type was heavy body armor, which consisted of heavy and bulky metal plates that were worn over clothing and limited mobility and movement. They were mostly used by medical crews on the battlefield, not combatants. If Barracuda was wearing this, it would have stopped the bullets, but he wouldn't have been any good in hand to hand, plus the bullets striking it would have made a very loud clanging noise as they struck the metal, giving away the fact that the bullets had not struck home, and warning Frank his opponent was not down, so he never would have approached to check to see if Barracuda was dead or wounded. He would have known before he finished firing the last round.
Lightwight body armor like Kevlar and such did not hit the market or the battlefield until late in the Vietnam era, and was not available for civilian use until 1969.
So I like the character development and you write a good action scene, but if you are going to do a period piece, you need to do the research. I knew the armaments were anachronistic, and all it took was about 30 seconds to type glock history and body armor history into google to get the facts as to when both came into use. It's not hard to do the research, and if you don't want to do it, you shouldn't do a period piece. It stands out like the wristwatch on the arm of a Scottish warrior in Braveheart.
-M
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Sept 17, 2012 19:20:51 GMT -5
A period piece isn't always a period piece in a shared comic universe, MRP. This is still the era where the likes of Cap and the first Human Torch debuted (while I don't know if Cap will still premier during then, there is reason to believe tech is at a different level). Things like body armor are certainly possible especially when you remember that this is a comic based fanfiction. It stars a guy called Fantomex. Suspend your belief a bit.
On topic.
I don't know why but I can't get into this. It's fantastically written and has great dialogue but for some reason I have trouble concentrating on it. Maybe it's cause this is not my type of comic... I don't know. Still good and way better than your first issue of Secret Six.
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Post by mrp on Sept 18, 2012 11:43:45 GMT -5
SO this is what liquidsword said in his initial post about the series: So issue #1 is up. If the name didn't give it away, the first issue should sort of show where I'm going. To me, The Punisher in the modern day just isn't viable when you consider the other heroes and villains around, and to be honest most Punisher stuff not written by Garth Ennis hasn't been enjoyable to me. However I've got a soft spot for Punisher Noir, and I'll take any excuse to write a load of card carrying villain mobsters, hitmen, pimps, war criminals, drug lords and whatever else you can find in post WWII New York. Seeming to indicate that he wanted to set the Punisher in the 1940's because the setting was necessary for the grim, dark, realistic kind of story he wanted to tell. Not a story where Punisher is dealing with weird tech out of time and suspension of disbelief is necessary, but one where the setting of the 1940's was important tot he kind of story he wanted to tell. If the setting is going to be a major factor because you want to get Castle away from modern trappings, then there is an expectation you will get the elements of the setting right and avoid the modern trappings you were seeking to escape by setting the story in the 1940's rather than at any other time. That is why I commented on the authenticity of the tech. Not because you can't go all goofy with stuff, but because liquidsword himself seemed to indicate he was trying to avoid that in this series. If liquidsword has since changed his mind and decided he wants to bring modern elements back into the 40's, then I apologize for the comments, but that was not how he set expectations for the tone of the series in his introductory post. So when the author tells us he wants to do a period piece because it is necessary for the story he wants to tell, then the expectation is it will be a period piece, shared universe or not. And yes it is a shared universe, but one with a blank slate. No one has yet established there were superheroes in WWII. Until someone establishes in story this was the case, it isn't. There has been no previous mention of it in any of the issues of this series and it has been explicitly stated by the author that the period was chosen to get away from those types of things. So it's not a matter of suspension of disbelief, its a matter of stated goals vs. execution. -M
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Post by The Wonderful Wachter on Sept 18, 2012 12:11:20 GMT -5
Nothing about that indicates to me that he didn't want tech and other stuff. Body armor is not that big of a deal. Not when guys named Fantomex and Barracuda are still rolling around. The stated goals seem more in line with "The Punisher can't work in a world over saturated with the likes of the Avengers, F4, Spidey, super criminals, and who knows what else in the same city." A guy with a gun and a knife can still take down another guy with light body armor that may be advance for the period.
I'm still having the Human Torch exist back then. Nick Fury (until we're told otherwise with there being two of them or something) is alive then and now. Cap is probably still back there unless Beyonder has decided to go in a way different direction.
It's a tiny thing that took nothing away from the story. A lot like your deal with turkey. Either way, I'm done. It's liquid's to defend. Not me.
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Post by All Star Silentking on Sept 18, 2012 14:47:08 GMT -5
There are two Nick Furies. This Nick Fury is kind of like Mainstream Nick Fury. Modern Nick Fury (The one in the SHIELD title) looks like Sam L. "Motherfucking" Jackson, but is a composite character of every Fury ever made according to Mezzaro. And Mezzaro said that Beyonder told him that Cap will be set in WWII.
Edit: Also, ignore the fact wachter is currently admin. That is so he can spice up the site a bit. Otherwise, I would have done the request that he asked of me and Mezzaro for him.
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Post by mezzaro123 on Sept 18, 2012 17:12:58 GMT -5
I would have to say I agree with watcher on this one. Modern day New York is to overpopulated with heroes for the story Liquidsword wants to tell. So he set it back in the 40's where it is a darker setting regardless of the equipment used such as body armor and guns.
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Post by liquidsword34 on Oct 5, 2012 9:21:29 GMT -5
Issue 5 is up
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Post by All Star Silentking on Oct 5, 2012 11:08:48 GMT -5
I don't feel like having a hamburger today. Anyway, awesome issue as always. Your plan to have Punisher set in the past is working out beautifully! Can't wait for the next issue! Mostly because you will officially be in continuity then.
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Post by siuruxawaruhu on May 29, 2019 17:21:09 GMT -5
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Post by lubodiq on May 29, 2019 19:08:38 GMT -5
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